Wireless for the family- minded communicator!

Welcome to the Personal Wireless Bulletin Board

Click to Visit Radiosonline!


Google
Web PopularWireless.com

Learn more about the PRAWhere to report at the FCCMeet our advertisers.Go to GMRS Web MagazineRead the FAQGMRS Travel Tone SystemThe GMRS FRS FAQMore to GMRS


Support This Site

Visit RKLeef.com for details!

GMRS Repeater Listing Project

Visit RKLEEF.COM today!

Need web based email? Get it at Computermail.net!

Visit theradioman today!

Visit RKLEEF.COM today!

Bridgecom System repeaters for GMRS

Call FX Pro Com Today!

Ritron repeaters.

Visit RadiosOnline.com ! Call for price!

  Popular Wireless Magazine Personal Wireless BBS
  General Mobile Radio Service Forum
  MDC-1200 signalling (Page 1)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone!
This topic is 2 pages long:   1  2 
next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   MDC-1200 signalling
jthorpe
Regular Reader

Posts: 140
From: Raleigh, NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted October 30, 2000 08:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jthorpe   Click Here to Email jthorpe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Can anyone give me an idea if mdc-1200 has any decent use without a dispatcher? I have two Motorola GP300's that support this and wanted to use them for selective calling in the future when I also have my Maxtrac mobiles installed. Would this work? Is it appropriate on GMRS in the first place? If not, I will find another way.

Jack

IP: Logged

kg4ciu
Regular Reader

Posts: 297
From: atlanta
Registered: May 99

posted November 05, 2000 11:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kg4ciu     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
yes it will work.. yes it is legal and yes thats a decent use for it

IP: Logged

Tony Szablowski
Moderator

Posts: 1497
From: USA
Registered: Apr 99

posted November 22, 2000 12:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tony Szablowski   Click Here to Email Tony Szablowski     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Unless they've changed the rules, again, MDC signalling is not permitted in GMRS. MDC is essentially a data packet transmission. If you were to use tones to page someone these would be permitted. Here's what I just read via the FCC's site, citing 47CFR95.181:

"(e) All messages must be in plain language (without codes or hidden
meanings). They may be in a foreign language, except for call signs (see
Sec. 95.119).
(f) A station operator may communicate tone messages for purposes of
identification or transmitter control in a control link (see
Sec. 95.127). (The FCC treats a control tone as voice in this case.)
(g) A station operator may communicate a selective calling tone or
tone operated squelch only in conjunction with a voice communication. If
the tone is subaudible (300 Hertz or less) it may be communicated during
the entire voice message. If the tone is audible (more than 300 Hertz)
it may be communicated for no more than 15 seconds at a time.
(h) A station operator may communicate a one-way voice page to a
paging receiver. A selective calling tone or tone operated squelch may
be used in conjunction with a voice page, as prescribed in paragraph (g)
of this section. A station operator may not communicate a tone-only page
(tones communicated in order to find, summon or notify someone)."

IP: Logged

Critter
Regular Reader

Posts: 3262
From: Schenectady NY USA
Registered: Feb 2000

posted November 22, 2000 04:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Critter   Click Here to Email Critter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Can someone define MDC for me?

Thanks.

IP: Logged

kg4ciu
Regular Reader

Posts: 297
From: atlanta
Registered: May 99

posted November 24, 2000 04:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kg4ciu     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
tony you answered the ?? your self ,
so long as the radios audible paging tones do not exceed 15 seconds its perfectly legal...
we've got an amateur repeater here that uses mdc to connect to public saftey dispaters via phone patch when a n equiped radio's emergency buton is pressed. thtas the only use right now but other selective calling features are available , the proble is other than motorola very few radio manufactors support MDC1200, that fact is changing however.

IP: Logged

Joe Montierth
Moderator

Posts: 2454
From: Safford, AZ USA
Registered: May 99

posted November 24, 2000 04:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Joe Montierth   Click Here to Email Joe Montierth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
95.631 Emission types.
(a) A GMRS transmitter must trans-mit
only emission types A1D, F1D,
G1D, H1D, J1D, R1D, A3E, F3E, G3E,
H3E, J3E or R3E. A non-voice emission
is limited to selective calling or tone-operated
squelch tones to establish or
continue voice communications. See
95.181 (g) and (h).
(b) An R/C transmitter may transmit
any appropriate non-voice emission
which meets the emission limitations
of 95.633.
(c) A CB transmitter may transmit
only emission types A1D, H1D, J1D,
R1D, A3E, H3E, J3E, R3E. A non-voice
emission is limited to selective calling
or tone-operated squelch tones to es-tablish
or continue voice communica-tions.
See 95.412 (b) and (c).
(d) An FRS unit may transmit only
emission type F3E. A non-voice emis-sion
is limited to selective calling or
tone-operated squelch tones to estab-lish
or continue voice communications.
(e) No GMRS or CB transmitter shall
employ a digital modulation or emis-sion.
(f) No GMRS, CB or R/C transmitter
shall transmit non-voice data.

MDC1200 is a digital format and would seem to be prohibited on GMRS by paragraph (e) and (f).

Joe

IP: Logged

Joe Montierth
Moderator

Posts: 2454
From: Safford, AZ USA
Registered: May 99

posted November 24, 2000 09:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Joe Montierth   Click Here to Email Joe Montierth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, it seems to be contradictory. The FCC considers DPL to be like CTCSS for selective calling and it is not prohibited on GMRS.

If you read (e) and (f) they seem to prohibit this type of transmission. If MDC1200 is a digital emmision, it would seem to be prohibited by (e). If MDC1200 is data, and it is definately non-voice, it would seem to be prohibited by (f).


95.181

(g) A station operator may commu-nicate
a selective calling tone or tone
operated squelch only in conjunction
with a voice communication. If the
tone is subaudible (300 Hertz or less) it
may be communicated during the en-tire
voice message. If the tone is audi-ble
(more than 300 Hertz) it may be
communicated for no more than 15 sec-onds
at a time.

This provision allows PL (and possibly DPL) tones to be used. They are non-voice, but transmitted subaudiably, so they are OK. Digital transmissions are not considered "tones" by the FCC, therefore MDC1200 would not fall into the 15 second audible tone rule.

This is probably a gray area to some, however I think (e) and (f) are very clear.

Joe

IP: Logged

TigersGuy
Regular Reader

Posts: 522
From: Mesa, AZ
Registered: Jul 2000

posted November 24, 2000 09:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TigersGuy   Click Here to Email TigersGuy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Seems to me, in another thread DCS/DPL was described as a seres of square waves used to pass digital information, and was not a sub-audible tone. And yet, as Joe mentioned, it seems to be accepted by everyone, including the commission. Perhaps the commission was in Florida when they wrote that section9s0 of rule.

------------------
Jim
WPQQ288

IP: Logged

Tony Szablowski
Moderator

Posts: 1497
From: USA
Registered: Apr 99

posted November 25, 2000 02:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tony Szablowski   Click Here to Email Tony Szablowski     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DPL is not a way of calling/paging someone. Malcom, again, MDC does not use paging tones. It uses data transmissions. As for DPL, I will yield the floor to Corwin since he might know about this. However, I don't use DPL, nor do any repeaters I use or that I know of running GMRS legally.

------------------
Tony Szablowski,
Moderator of GMRS Magazine's "FRS" and "Buy, Sell, Trade" Forums

IP: Logged

Critter
Regular Reader

Posts: 3262
From: Schenectady NY USA
Registered: Feb 2000

posted November 25, 2000 05:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Critter   Click Here to Email Critter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Seems like sections e and f cited above to rule out MDC would rule out also DCS. It looks to me (of course I reserve the right to be wrong) that section A would allow it, though, because it says, "A non-voice emission is limited to selective calling or tone-operated squelch tones to establish or continue voice communications."

Isn't MDC-1200, from this description, used for selective calling?

IP: Logged

Joe Montierth
Moderator

Posts: 2454
From: Safford, AZ USA
Registered: May 99

posted November 25, 2000 08:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Joe Montierth   Click Here to Email Joe Montierth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, it makes it difficult to determine. I would expect that most GMRS users wouldn't care if someone were using MDC1200 signalling. However, the FCC may or may not care, and they are the determining factor.

Also, I think MDC1200 would be classified as F2D emmission, and that is not specified under 95.631 (a).

Joe

IP: Logged

jthorpe
Regular Reader

Posts: 140
From: Raleigh, NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted November 25, 2000 09:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jthorpe   Click Here to Email jthorpe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So... I have come to the conclusion that I will keep using it.

IP: Logged

TigersGuy
Regular Reader

Posts: 522
From: Mesa, AZ
Registered: Jul 2000

posted November 25, 2000 09:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TigersGuy   Click Here to Email TigersGuy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I recently got permission from a local repeater owner, and he assigned me a DPL code to use.

He told me he has no PL boards on his repeater. He is using it as a GMRS repeater, for his family.

On the one hand, it works, and I don't see it interfering with any other very few other of the channel.

On the other hand, I don't wish to be doing anything that breaks the rules either.

------------------
Jim
WPQQ288

IP: Logged

Joe Montierth
Moderator

Posts: 2454
From: Safford, AZ USA
Registered: May 99

posted November 25, 2000 09:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Joe Montierth   Click Here to Email Joe Montierth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Regarding MDC1200:
Probably the very worst that could happen would be a letter from the FCC telling you not to use it, and that would only happen if someone turned you in, and the FCC cared to do anything about it.

Regarding DPL:

I seem to remember somewhere in the past the FCC addressed this question and said if the data was subaudible, and only there as a selective call mechanism, that it would be acceptable for use.

Anybody have any hard evidence?

Joe

[This message has been edited by Joe Montierth (edited November 25, 2000).]

IP: Logged

Joe Montierth
Moderator

Posts: 2454
From: Safford, AZ USA
Registered: May 99

posted November 25, 2000 06:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Joe Montierth   Click Here to Email Joe Montierth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Critter:
Seems like sections e and f cited above to rule out MDC would rule out also DCS. It looks to me (of course I reserve the right to be wrong) that section A would allow it, though, because it says, "A non-voice emission is limited to selective calling [b]or tone-operated squelch tones to establish or continue voice communications."

Isn't MDC-1200, from this description, used for selective calling? [/B]



Re-reading everything, I think DPL would be OK, since an F1D emission type is permitted, and the only type of non-voice emission permitted would be for selective calling, which DPL is. I *think* MDC1200 is emission type F2D, which is not permitted by the rules. Direct FSK of the carrier is F1D, AFSK on the carrier is F2D. Not being familiar with MDC1200, I do not know which they use, but I assume it would be F2D since that would propagate through a repeater, or down a landline with no modification of signal.

Anyone have any info on how MDC1200 works? I will look on the web to see if it states its type of modulation.

Joe

IP: Logged

Joe Montierth
Moderator

Posts: 2454
From: Safford, AZ USA
Registered: May 99

posted November 25, 2000 06:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Joe Montierth   Click Here to Email Joe Montierth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From what I can find out about it, it looks like MDC1200 is an F2D digital format. This is not a permitted emission code for GMRS. So , even if it were only used for sel-call, it probably is not permitted. It looks like it would take a change in the rules to use this format legally.

Anyway, that's the 7-0 opinion from me.

Joe

IP: Logged

Critter
Regular Reader

Posts: 3262
From: Schenectady NY USA
Registered: Feb 2000

posted November 25, 2000 08:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Critter   Click Here to Email Critter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tony-

I placed the word "or" in boldface to make sure it did not get missed.

Here is the way I read it:

You may transmit non-voice signalling for selective calling.

OR

You may transmit non-voice signalling for tone-operated squelch.

IP: Logged

Joe Montierth
Moderator

Posts: 2454
From: Safford, AZ USA
Registered: May 99

posted November 25, 2000 08:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Joe Montierth   Click Here to Email Joe Montierth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kg4ciu:
define selective calling as per the FCC
none of the rules you guys quoted address what forms of selective calling are permitted/prohibited leaving the user to detirmine for himself

Selective call would be a way to open a squelch on a radio without opening all squelchs on channel. PL, DPL, MDC1200, 2 tone, 5 tone, etc. could all be forms of selective calling. Of these forms, PL, 2 tone and 5 tone would all be OK, since they satisfy the various rules dealing with timing, being tones, and whether or not they are subaudible (PL being subaudible).

DPL and MDC1200 are both digital formats as opposed to "tones". F1D is an emission type supported by the GMRS rules. This is the emission type of DPL. Since DPL is a "non-voice" emission, it must be limited to selective calling, which it is, so it should be acceptable.

MDC1200 is emission type F2D, which is not supported by the GMRS rules, therefore it would not be usable for any purpose.

Joe

IP: Logged

Bill Easterday
Moderator

Posts: 3921
From: Elyria, Ohio USA
Registered: Oct 1999

posted November 26, 2000 06:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bill Easterday   Click Here to Email Bill Easterday     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My understanding of CTCSS (PL) and DCS (DPL) is that both are transmitted continuously and serve to hold open the squelch gate on similarly configured radios. When the tone or pulse train stops, even if the carrier remains, a receiver will stop passing its audio to the speaker.

This is different from most 2 tone sequential, long tone B, 5/6, DTMF and other paging formats that I've seen for tone and voice paging. I suppose there are some exceptions, but these audible tones cause a receiver to open its squelch and it will remain open until reset by the person carrying that receiver. I think that tone and voice paging is legal on a secondary basis on GMRS, but tone only paging is not.

Neither of these selective calling systems, CTCSS/DCS or paging, is used to transmit "data" other than to cause one or more properly configured receivers to be activated.

Not being completely familiar with the protocol or purpose of MDC-1200 all I can gather is what has appeared in this thread. It sounds more like an ANI device than a selective calling mechanism. If so, this is a horse of a different color.

[This message has been edited by Bill Easterday (edited November 26, 2000).]

IP: Logged

kg4ciu
Regular Reader

Posts: 297
From: atlanta
Registered: May 99

posted November 26, 2000 05:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kg4ciu     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
mdc is a muliti use format . it can be used for ANI and/or selective calling
it can be used fo paging and or status messaging.
its quite versatile .. more so than any other format. the way I read the rules it is legal for use in part 95 service only for select calling or paging.. ..
my suggestion use it until the fc issues a clear ruling that it is not permitted

IP: Logged

Tony Szablowski
Moderator

Posts: 1497
From: USA
Registered: Apr 99

posted November 26, 2000 05:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tony Szablowski   Click Here to Email Tony Szablowski     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just got done typing a lengthy response but whatever glitch this BBS just had wiped out my reponse. I will not retype it, but I will say this.

Selective calling via non-voice signalling is not allowed if you are NOT using tones, subaudible or audible, to accomplish this.
Tone operated squelch is just that. It utilizes tones, not digital packet transmisions. MDC is a data packet transmission. It does NOT use tones in any way. It is used for ANI and hailing another receiver. Depending how a radio is setup to deal with being selectively called, after receiving such a call it may be reset either manually by the radio user or automatically reset.

------------------
Tony Szablowski,
Moderator of GMRS Magazine's "FRS" and "Buy, Sell, Trade" Forums

IP: Logged

Joe Montierth
Moderator

Posts: 2454
From: Safford, AZ USA
Registered: May 99

posted November 27, 2000 12:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Joe Montierth   Click Here to Email Joe Montierth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DTMF is a type of tone signalling, MDC is a type of digital signalling. This is where the problem lies. Even if they were both used for the same purpose, IMO MDC1200 could not be used on GMRS because its emission type, F2D is not allowed on GMRS. If you were using DTMF for any other purpose than sel call or paging, it would not be permitted (such as turning on a light at a remote location).

Joe

IP: Logged

kg4ciu
Regular Reader

Posts: 297
From: atlanta
Registered: May 99

posted November 27, 2000 01:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kg4ciu     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
95.75n would seem to permit the use of MDC in conjuction with voice traffic .. it specificly addresses digital sel-call

[This message has been edited by kg4ciu (edited November 27, 2000).]

IP: Logged

Tony Szablowski
Moderator

Posts: 1497
From: USA
Registered: Apr 99

posted November 27, 2000 01:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tony Szablowski   Click Here to Email Tony Szablowski     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There shouldn't be a misunderstanding about MDC with regards to its legality in GMRS. It is a digital transmission, not tone in any form. As for "95.5n", I'm not able to find the section you're talking about. Please cut and paste the exact section from the FCC you're referencing. Thanks.

------------------
Tony Szablowski,
Moderator of GMRS Magazine's "FRS" and "Buy, Sell, Trade" Forums

IP: Logged

Tony Szablowski
Moderator

Posts: 1497
From: USA
Registered: Apr 99

posted November 27, 2000 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tony Szablowski   Click Here to Email Tony Szablowski     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Malcom, correct me if I'm misunderstanding you, but when I go to the FCC's rules and regs online and look at Title 47, Part 97, it states "PART 97--AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE." This is -not- the General Mobile Radio Service("GMRS"). Amateur and GMRS are two different beasts with mostly different rules. I don't know if hyperlinking to this URL will work but for anyone wanting to check out the rules pertaining to GMRS, you can try it. This is where the FCC took me just now when looking for GMRS regulations: http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_98/47cfr95_98.html[/URL]

------------------
Tony Szablowski,
Moderator of GMRS Magazine's "FRS" and "Buy, Sell, Trade" Forums

[This message has been edited by Tony Szablowski (edited November 27, 2000).]

IP: Logged

Joe Montierth
Moderator

Posts: 2454
From: Safford, AZ USA
Registered: May 99

posted November 27, 2000 04:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Joe Montierth   Click Here to Email Joe Montierth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm not finding any ref on 95.75n. Do you have new rules, or old. Quote us what it says.

Joe

IP: Logged

TigersGuy
Regular Reader

Posts: 522
From: Mesa, AZ
Registered: Jul 2000

posted November 27, 2000 09:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TigersGuy   Click Here to Email TigersGuy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
95.75n:

"(n) Emission designator. In the GMRS, emission F3E will be considered to include use of a selective calling tone, or a tone or digitally operated squelch (a tone code used to address a particular station) in conjunction with voice communications;"

It appears to me that it answers my question about using DCS. As far as MDC, I'll look to the analysis of you more experienced people on the forum.

------------------
Jim
WPQQ288

IP: Logged

Joe Montierth
Moderator

Posts: 2454
From: Safford, AZ USA
Registered: May 99

posted November 27, 2000 10:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Joe Montierth   Click Here to Email Joe Montierth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK, I found that in a 1996 rule edition. I thought I had remembered seeing something like that before.

That section is not in the new rules, however I would think that it would still apply, otherwise a lot of DPL users that had been legal under the rule would now be "questionable". That rule would seem to indicate that MDC1200 would be usable, as long as it was used only for selective calling of a station. It looks to me that it was deleted as an oversight, since the rest of the section deals with information required on the old form. When they deleted these sections, they created a lot of "gray" areas, open for interpretation.

Joe

IP: Logged

kg4ciu
Regular Reader

Posts: 297
From: atlanta
Registered: May 99

posted November 28, 2000 08:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kg4ciu     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
so
MDC1200 is legal per 95.75n

IP: Logged

Joe Montierth
Moderator

Posts: 2454
From: Safford, AZ USA
Registered: May 99

posted November 28, 2000 09:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Joe Montierth   Click Here to Email Joe Montierth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Right, but 95.75 doesn't exist in the new rules, so you're back to the same "gray area".

IP: Logged

kg4ciu
Regular Reader

Posts: 297
From: atlanta
Registered: May 99

posted November 28, 2000 10:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kg4ciu     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
it's the in the rules as revised in 1998... and unless a rule is repealed in revision it remains in effect from the date of last revision until changed by a new revision. and the 1998 revision is liste as the most current revision...leading one to believe ... it's the curent rule ths permitting use of MDC....
some people can't admit when the're wrong .. it has to be a gray area, mistake of the fcc, not me)
I'm glad I'm not one of them

IP: Logged

Joe Montierth
Moderator

Posts: 2454
From: Safford, AZ USA
Registered: May 99

posted November 28, 2000 01:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Joe Montierth   Click Here to Email Joe Montierth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My rules are dated 10-1-99, right off the GPO website. There may be a newer version than this, I don't know. However this is what is in the rules now:

* * * * *

95.51 Antenna height.
(a) Certain antenna structures used
in a GMRS system and that are more
than 60.96 m (200 ft) in height, or are lo-cated
near or at a public-use airport
must be notified to the FAA and reg-istered
with the Commission as re-quired
by part 17 of this chapter.
(b) The antenna for a small base sta-tion
or for a small control station must
not be more than 6.1 meters (20 feet)
above the ground or above the building
or tree on which it is mounted.
[63 FR 68975, Dec. 14, 1998]
95.101 What the license authorizes.
(a) A GMRS license authorizes a
GMRS station to transmit messages to
other GMRS stations at any geo-graphical
location within or over the
territorial limits of any area where
radio services are regulated by the
FCC. These points are listed in Appen-dix
A.
(b) The license does not authorize op-eration
as a common carrier or com-munication
of messages for pay.


As you can see, it skips from 95.51 to 95.101. There is no 95.75 in the existing rules. Maybe it should be there, it probably should based on what it says, but regardless its not there now. Corwin's website, which is usually up to date on the rules also doesn't list a 95.75.

If you believe the newest revision supercedes all previous ones, then 95.75 is missing, and MDC1200 would not be allowed, using a technical reading of the existing rules (10-1-99) which would be newer than any 1998 rules that you are quoting from.


>>some people can't admit when the're wrong .. it has to be a gray area, mistake of the fcc, not me)
I'm glad I'm not one of them


If you don't even know that your rule revision is not the newest, then I would not expect you to understand that you are wrong. Don't try to prove people wrong with outdated material.

Joe

IP: Logged

kg4ciu
Regular Reader

Posts: 297
From: atlanta
Registered: May 99

posted November 28, 2000 09:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kg4ciu     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
95.75n stands untill such time that it is repealled .. what you have are recently changed sections .. minus the sections un changed........ the complete set ofcurrent rules would include all secions with no omissions

IP: Logged

Joe Montierth
Moderator

Posts: 2454
From: Safford, AZ USA
Registered: May 99

posted November 28, 2000 10:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Joe Montierth   Click Here to Email Joe Montierth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's what the old 95.75 says. Tell me if you think it is still valid:

PART 95--PERSONAL RADIO SERVICES--Table of Contents

Subpart A--General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS)

Sec. 95.75 Basic information.

The following information is required in all applications for a
license for a new or modified GMRS system:
(a) Applicant's name (see Sec. 95.5);
(b) Applicant's mailing address (an address in the United States
where mail from the FCC can be received);
(c) Transmitting channel or channel pair requested (see Sec. 95.29);
(d) Station class;
(e) Number of transmitter units in a mobile station (see
Sec. 95.23);
(f) Number of land stations in each class (see Sec. 95.25);
(g) Transmitter power as follows:
(1) Transmitter output power in watts for all stations.
(2) Station ERP in watts for all stations other than mobile
stations, small base stations and small control stations.
(h) Each land station point (except small base stations and small
control stations):
(1) Latitude and longitude within one second; and
(2) Street address (if none, local directions to the station);
(i) Each control point for each remotely controlled land station
(see Sec. 95.127), including small base stations and small control
stations:
(1) Street address (if none, local directions to the control point);
or
(2) Call sign of any control station already licensed to the
applicant for that point;
(j) Antenna height (see Sec. 95.51) and antenna ground elevation for
each land station, except for small base stations and small control
stations;
(k) Communication services (see Sec. 95.101(c)) the proposed GMRS
system would provide to, or receive from, any other individual or
entity;
(l) Age eligibility statement (where required--see Sec. 95.5);
(m) Area of operation;
(n) Emission designator. In the GMRS, emission F3E will be
considered to include use of a selective calling tone, or a tone or
digitally operated squelch (a tone code used to address a particular
station) in conjunction with voice communications;
(o) Foreign government certification, if applicable (see Sec. 95.5);
(p) Frequency claim waiver certification, if applicable; and
(q) Applicant's signature (see Sec. 95.87).

[48 FR 35237, Aug. 3, 1983, as amended at 49 FR 4003, Feb. 1, 1984; 53
FR 47716, Nov. 25, 1988]

This whole thing has now been changed, most of this stuff you don't have to do anymore, thats why this section was deleted, and no longer part of the rules. Unfortunately, they deleted (n) right along with the rest of this stuff. The rules as printed by GPO are complete, they are not just the changes. When a new Part 95 comes out, the old one is basically out the window.

I am not saying that MDC1200 cannot be used, just that under my research, involving current rules, it does not appear to be lawful. The FCC should issue a rule clarification so that 95(n) is reinstated, thereby avoiding any confusion. I don't think that using MDC1200 solely as sel call would bother anyone, and I don't think the FCC would really care; however, there is no longer a rule to back that up, and there is a rule prohibiting that emission type (F2D).

Joe

IP: Logged

kg4ciu
Regular Reader

Posts: 297
From: atlanta
Registered: May 99

posted November 29, 2000 08:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kg4ciu     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree joe , if omitted 95.75n needs to be re instated. we or aleast I will leave at that....... if you want to use mdc do so, if some one ask point out 95.75n, and discontinue use of mdc...if requested

IP: Logged

Corwin Moore
Moderator

Posts: 1884
From: Ann Arbor, MI
Registered: Apr 99

posted November 29, 2000 12:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Corwin Moore   Click Here to Email Corwin Moore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kg4ciu:
I agree joe , if omitted 95.75n needs to be re instated.

For the sake of "simplification," a large number of prior rules that carefully defined legal operating obligations were removed during the ULS revisions of 2 years ago. There is a comprehensive discussion of these changes on the PRSG Web site: http://www.provide.net/~prsg

- Corwin Moore (PRSG)

IP: Logged

Joe Montierth
Moderator

Posts: 2454
From: Safford, AZ USA
Registered: May 99

posted November 29, 2000 08:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Joe Montierth   Click Here to Email Joe Montierth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Corwin:

Maybe I'm just stupid (Duh!) but I can't find the discussion on your site, but I didn't look at every page and link, either. This has been a good discussion, and I think it points out the need for clarification of some rules. When 95.75(n) was deleted, that language should have been inserted somewhere, like 95.631(a), which is similiar, but omits "digitally". I don't think it was the INTENT of the FCC to outlaw MDC1200 and possibly DPL, but in essence it looks to be the case. Maybe we need to ask the Florida supreme court.

Joe

IP: Logged

kg4ciu
Regular Reader

Posts: 297
From: atlanta
Registered: May 99

posted November 29, 2000 09:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kg4ciu     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
for arguments sake lets just say it's legal..we the jury .. until ruled other wise..

IP: Logged

Corwin Moore
Moderator

Posts: 1884
From: Ann Arbor, MI
Registered: Apr 99

posted November 29, 2000 11:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Corwin Moore   Click Here to Email Corwin Moore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Joe Montierth:
I can't find the discussion on your site, ...

Sorry, I should have been more explicit. On the GMRS Rules page, there is a reference (and link) to a prior rules version that discussed the significance of the (then proposed) changes.

You can view this at: http://www.provide.net/~prsg/p95aeuls.htm

This version of the GMRS rules is NOT current, but it does discuss the significance and implications of the changes imposed by the Report and Order in the ULS docket.

- Corwin Moore (PRSG)

IP: Logged

Tony Szablowski
Moderator

Posts: 1497
From: USA
Registered: Apr 99

posted December 02, 2000 06:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tony Szablowski   Click Here to Email Tony Szablowski     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
95.75, subsection "N", states,

"(n) Emission designator. In the GMRS, emission F3E will be
considered to include use of a selective calling tone, or a tone or
digitally operated squelch (a tone code used to address a particular
station) in conjunction with voice communications;"

The first problem is that directly following the words "digitally operated squelch", the author writes, "(a tone code used to address a particular station)." Is this to imply that the phrase in paranthesis refers to the digitally operated squelch? If so, then this is untrue and can't happen if done digitally because a tone is an analog waveform, not a digital one or zero.

Secondly, "digitally operated squelch" is DCS. Squelch is referred in radio speak as when surpressing noise or undesired frequencies("white noise", etc.) that you might hear on a particular frequency. So how does digitally operated squelch equate to an MDC signalling protocol?

------------------
Tony Szablowski,
Moderator of GMRS Magazine's "FRS" and "Buy, Sell, Trade" Forums

[This message has been edited by Tony Szablowski (edited December 02, 2000).]

IP: Logged


This topic is 2 pages long:   1  2 

All times are EST (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Popular Wireless Magazines | Privacy Statement

Popular Wireless Magazines, Copyright 1998-2004 EDS Design & Animation, Platinum-Medallion Books, and Popular Wireless Magazines, including GMRS Web, MURS Web, and CB Web Magazines.


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47e

PRA

FCC



Who links to me?